DATE=02/24/99 TYPE=ON THE LINE NUMBER=1-00717 TITLE=THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION: TWENTY YEARS LATER EDITOR=OFFICE OF POLICY - 619-0037 CONTENT= THEME: UP, HOLD UNDER AND FADE ANNCR: ON THE LINE -- A DISCUSSION OF UNITED STATES POLICIES AND CONTEMPORARY ISSUES. THIS WEEK, "THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION: TWENTY YEARS LATER." HERE IS YOUR HOST, ROBERT REILLY. HOST HELLO AND WELCOME TO ON THE LINE. THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION MARKED ITS TWENTIETH ANNIVERSARY THIS FEBRUARY. THE REVOLUTION ENDED THE REIGN OF SHAH MOHAMMAD REZA PAHLAVI IN FEBRUARY 1979 AND BROUGHT TO POWER THE AYATOLLAH RUHOLLAH KHOMEINI. KHOMEINI'S FORCES MADE IRAN AN ISLAMIC STATE RULED BY SHI'ITE CLERICS. IN NOVEMBER 1979, ISLAMIC REVOLUTIONARIES SEIZED THE AMERICAN EMBASSY IN TEHRAN AND HELD UNITED STATES DIPLOMATS HOSTAGE FOR MORE THAN A YEAR. SINCE THEN, THE CLERICAL RULERS HAVE REPRESSED HUMAN RIGHTS WITHIN IRAN AND SPONSORED TERRORISM ABROAD. IN 1997, THE PEOPLE OF IRAN SHOWED THEIR DESIRE FOR CHANGE BY ELECTING MOHAMMED KHATAMI AS PRESIDENT. MR. KHATAMI HAS MADE ENCOURAGING REMARKS ABOUT EASING REPRESSION AND OPENING UP TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES. HOWEVER, IT IS UNCLEAR WHETHER ANY SIGNIFICANT LIBERALIZATION WILL BE ALLOWED BY THE CLERICAL REGIME. JOINING ME TODAY TO DISCUSS IRANIAN REVOLUTION ARE THREE EXPERTS: DAVID WURMSER IS RESIDENT FELLOW AT THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE AND AUTHOR OF THE BOOK, TYRANNY'S ALLY: AMERICA'S FAILURE TO DEFEAT SADDAM HUSSEIN. KENNETH TIMMERMAN IS PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER, THE IRAN BRIEF AND A CONTRIBUTING EDITOR TO READER'S DIGEST MAGAZINE. AND AHMAD REZAI IS THE SON OF THE FORMER COMMANDER OF IRAN'S REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS. MR. REZAI SERVED IN THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS BEFORE DEFECTING TO THE UNITED STATES LAST YEAR. WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM. HOST: DAVID WURMSER, IN YOUR RECENT BOOK YOU HAVE A CHAPTER ON THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION. PERHAPS YOU COULD BEGIN BY TELLING US WHAT WERE THE INITIAL OBJECTIVES OF THE REVOLUTION, AND HAVE THEY BEEN MET TWENTY YEARS LATER? WURMSER: WELL, I THINK THERE WERE TWO BASIC OBJECTIVES TO THE REVOLUTION. THE FIRST ONE WAS THE INSTALLATION OF SHARIA-PATH ISLAMIC LAW, FOR THE GUIDING OF SOCIETY, POLITICS, CULTURE, EVERYTHING, IN IRAN. HOST: WAS THAT UNIVERSALLY GREETED AT THE TIME? WURMSER: NO, IT WASN'T UNIVERSALLY GREETED. THERE WAS A BROAD COALITION THAT BROUGHT THIS GOVERNMENT TO POWER AND, WITH TIME, THIS FACTION OF THE GOVERNMENT -- NAMELY THE ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST GOVERNMENT -- TOOK OVER AND REMOVED ALL THE OTHER ELEMENTS THAT HAD COOPERATED IN THE COALITION TO BRING ABOUT THIS GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING COMMUNISTS, A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE. [REGARDING] THE FIRST OBJECTIVE, I'D SAY, ON A SUPERFICIAL LEVEL THEY'VE SUCCEEDED. SHARIA IS THE LAW OF THE LAND. IT GUIDES CULTURE, POLITICS, FILM, EVERYTHING. THE SECOND THING THEY WERE AFTER WAS POWER AND A CONCENTRATION OF CENTRALIZED POWER. AND IT WAS AN UNPRECEDENTED SUCCESS IN THAT REGARD AS WELL. ALL INSTITUTIONS IN IRAN ARE ESSENTIALLY FUNCTIONS OF THE CENTRALIZED POWER OF THE STATE. NOW, HAVING SAID THAT, ON A BROADER SCALE, THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTION HAS BEEN A TERRIBLE FAILURE. RELIGION, THOUGH ENFORCED AS THE LAW OF THE LAND IN IRAN, PROBABLY IS MORE HATED, MORE DESPISED, AND LESS GOVERNING IN THE MINDS OF IRANIANS THAN EVER BEFORE. IT IS SEEN AS PART OF THE PROBLEM. THEY'VE ESSENTIALLY CORRUPTED THE RELIGION BY BRINGING IT INTO POWER. AND AS FAR AS HAVING POWER, YES, THEY CONTROL ALL THE INSTRUMENTS OF STATE, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SO FORTH, BUT NEVER BEFORE HAS AN IRANIAN SOCIETY BEEN AS DISGRUNTLED AND DISPLEASED WITH ITS LEADERSHIP AS NOW. HOST: KEN TIMMERMAN, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT CHARACTERIZATION OF THE REVOLUTION AND ITS RESULTS? TIMMERMAN: I THINK IT'S TRUE THAT THE REVOLUTION HAS FAILED IN ITS PRIMARY OBJECTIVES. IN ADDITION TO WHAT DAVID WAS SAYING, I'D SAY THERE WAS A TREMENDOUS EMPHASIS ON GAINING IRAN'S INDEPENDENCE. THE CLERICAL REVOLUTIONARIES CLAIM THAT IRAN WAS BASICALLY CONTROLLED BY THE UNITED STATES, WHICH WASN'T TRUE, BUT BE THAT AS IT MAY. THEY SAY WE HAVE TO MAKE IRAN INDEPENDENT AGAIN. AND TWENTY YEARS AFTER THE REVOLUTION, IRAN IS DEEPLY IN DEBT. THEY NEVER WERE BEFORE. THEY HAVE FORGED A STRATEGIC ALLIANCE WITH RUSSIA, WHICH IS NOTHING LIKE THE RELATIONSHIP THEY HAD WITH THE UNITED STATES BEFORE. THE RUSSIANS ARE IN THERE RUNNING ALL THE ARMS FACTORIES. THEY ARE SELLING WEAPONS. THEY ARE IN THE UNIVERSITIES TEACHING. THE ECONOMY ITSELF IS IN SHAMBLES. THE OIL INDUSTRY IS DECREPIT. IT HASN'T BEEN MAINTAINED OR REPAIRED IN EIGHTEEN YEARS. THERE IS WIDESPREAD DISSATISFACTION. THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS WHAT DAVID SAID -- IS THE WAY YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE TURNED AWAY FROM ISLAM. SO THIS REVOLUTION THAT WAS MADE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. OR THIS REGIME THAT WAS MADE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, HAS ALIENATED YOUNG PEOPLE TOTALLY FROM ISLAM. HOST: WELL, LETS HEAR FROM A YOUNG PERSON FROM IRAN. MR. REZAI, YOU ARE CLOSE TO TWENTY-THREE YEARS OLD, THEREFORE YOU ARE A CHILD OF THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION FOR ITS PAST TWENTY YEARS. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF ITS RESULTS AND WHAT DO PEOPLE OF YOUR GENERATION INSIDE IRAN TODAY THINK OF THE REVOLUTION? REZAI: IT MEANS THEY ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL WITH US. WE DON'T BELIEVE IN THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT. WE BELIEVE THAT THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC IS A TERRORIST REGIME, THE BIGGEST TERRORIST GOVERNMENT IN THE WORLD. WE DON'T WANT TO BE CONSIDERED TERRORISTS, OR TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH TERRORISM. WE WANT TO BE FREE. WE WANT TO HAVE A GOOD LIFE, DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM. BUT WE HAVE NO FREEDOM IN IRAN. HOST: NO FREEDOM IN IRAN? REZAI: NO FREEDOM. THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC HAS TAKEN OUR LIVES AND SACRIFICED US TO THEIR GOALS. HOST: THEY TAKE YOUR LIFE? REZAI: YES, THEY WANT US TO WORK FOR THEM, TO CARRY OUT THEIR PROGRAMS, THEIR TERRORIST JOBS AROUND THE WORLD. THEY WANT TO CONTROL ISRAEL. THEY WANT TO CONTROL MUSLIM COUNTRIES. THEY WANT TO HAVE POWER OVER THE WORLD LIKE HITLER.. HOST: LET ME ASK YOU, THOUGH, ABOUT MR. KHATAMI BECAUSE HE REPRESENTED THE HOPED FOR CHANGE. SEVENTY PERCENT OF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE VOTED FOR PRESIDENT KHATAMI. WHO IS HE? DOES HE HAVE ANY POWER TO BRING ABOUT THE FREEDOM THE YOUNG IRANIAN PEOPLE HOPED FOR? REZAI: MR. KHATAMI HAS TWO FACES. TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD HE IS A GOOD MAN. HE WANTS DEMOCRACY. HE IS POPULAR WITH IRANIANS. THAT IS THE IMAGE THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT WANTS TO PORTRAY. BUT HIS OTHER FACE IS FOR INSIDE IRAN. THERE, EVERYBODY KNOWS HE IS FROM KHOMEINI'S FAMILY. EVERYBODY KNOWS HE IS WORKING FOR THE CLERICAL REGIME, NOT AGAINST THEM. HE IS A PART OF THE IRANIAN GOVERNMNET. HE IS A MULLAH. HE IS TRYING TO REBUILD KHOMEINI'S ISLAMIC REPUBLIC, TO MAKE IT STRONGER. THAT IS HIS PRIMARY PLEASURE. HOST: HIS DESIRE, HIS OBJECTIVE? REZAI: YES. HOST: IS TO WHAT? REZAI: HE HAS TWO GOALS, IN FACT. FIRST, HE WANTS TO FOOL YOUNG PEOPLE. YOUNG PEOPLE ARE AGAINST THE REGIME. KHATAMI WANTS TO MAKE THEM BELIEVE HE IS CHANGING THINGS. BUT HE NOT. HIS SECOND GOAL IS TO REVEAL PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST THE REGIME TO THE GOVERNMENT, BY MAKING THEM BELIEVE THEY CAN SPEAK OPENLY. FOR EXAMPLE, HE SAYS IRAN NEEDS DEMOCRACY, AND SO SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE HIM. THEY SAY, YES, THIS IS OUR IDEA. AND THEN THE SECURITY SERVICES KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND CAN KILL THEM VERY EASILY. HOST: SO, THIS IS A WAY TO DRAW OUT THE OPPOSITION, TO MAKE THEM MORE IDENTIFIABLE, AND THEN, SUPPRESS THEM? REZAI: THIS IS KHATAMI'S OBJECTIVE. HE CAME TO POWER AND SAID, EVERYBODY NEEDS FREEDOM, EVERYBODY NEEDS DEMOCARCY. AND BECAUSE IRANIAN PEOPLE REALLY WANT FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, AND BELIEVED HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH, THEY AGREED. AND THEN THE REGIME KILLS THEM. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FOROUHARS [DARIOUSH FOROUHAR AND HIS WIFE, PARVANEH]. THEY BELIEVED THEY COULD SPEAK OUT, AND THEY WERE KILLED BY THE REGIIME. HOST: I SEE. LET ME ASK DAVID WURMSER ABOUT THAT. DO YOU THINK THIS IS A CHARADE, THE EXPRESSED FOR HOPES IN MR. KHATAMI AND HIS OWN STATEMENTS THAT WOULD LEAD ONE TO EXPECT THERE MIGHT BE SOME KIND OF LIBERALIZATION IN IRAN? WURMSER: WELL, I'M NOT SURE IT'S COMPLETELY A CHARADE, BUT I DO THINK IT WOULD BE A DANGEROUS MISPERCEPTION ON OUR PART TO REST TOO MUCH HOPE ON KHATAMI, INASMUCH AS HE'S A POSITIVE FORCE, HE'S A POSITIVE FORCE ONLY, ONLY, BECAUSE HE WAS THE REFLECTION OF THE REGIME'S BOWING TO THE PRESSURES FROM THE STREET. AND IF WE IN THE UNITED STATES FORGET IT'S THOSE PRESSURES WE NEED TO BE WORKING WITH AND TRY TO CREATE OUT OF KHATAMI AN INDEPENDENT FORCE WHO HAS SOME INDEPENDENT REASON FOR BEING MODERATE THEN, WE'RE GOING TO BLOW IT. ESSENTIALLY, AT THAT POINT, KHATAMI WILL BELIEVE HE'S POWERFUL ENOUGH. AND YES, HE DOES WORK WITH THE REGIME, HE'S WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE REGIME. ITS A GOOD COP-BAD COP PHENOMENON THAT WE SEE WITH KHATAMI AND [AYATOLLAH ALI] KHAMENEI AND SO FORTH, SO AS LONG AS WE STICK WITH THE FORCES ON THE STREET AND CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE THOSE FORCES AND CONTINUE WITH THE POLICIES THAT LED TO THOSE PRESSURES, THEN KHATAMI CAN BE A USEFUL INSTRUMENT FOR BRINGING THE REGIME DOWN. BUT THE MOMENT WE FORGET THE REGIME NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT DOWN IN TOTO, AND WE THINK KHATAMI IS SOMETHING POSITIVE IN HIS OWN RIGHT, THEN WE WILL FAIL. HOST: KEN TIMMERMAN, IN YOUR PUBLICATION, YOU HAVE PROVIDED SOME RATHER STARTLING DOCUMENTATION ABOUT THE CONTEST OF WILLS BETWEEN PRESIDENT KHATAMI AND AYATOLLAH KHAMENEI. IS THAT REAL, AND IF SO, HOW POTENTIAL IS THE OUTBREAK OF CONFLICT BETWEEN THEM AND THE FORCES BEHIND BOTH OF THEM? TIMMERMAN: WE RECEIVED INFORMATION FROM SOURCES INSIDE THE REGIME IN TEHRAN OF AN EXTRAORDINARY TWO-DAY MEETING ON JANUARY 15TH AND JANUARY 16TH, WHERE KHATAMI, THE PRESIDENT, DEMANDED THE RESIGNATION OF THE INTELLIGENCE MINISTER BECAUSE HIS AGENT FROM HIS MINISTRY HAD BEEN CAUGHT AND HAD CONFESSED TO MURDERING DISSIDENTS INSIDE TEHRAN ITSELF, AT THE ORDER OF THE GOVERNMENT. THEY MURDERED DARIOUSH FOROUHAR AND HIS WIFE, PARVANEH, AND TWO OTHER DISSIDENT WRITERS. AND IT TURNS OUT THIS WAS A PLOT HATCHED BY THE REGIME ITSELF, BY AYATOLLAH KHAMENEI. SO KHATAMI WAS SUMMONED TO KHAMENEI'S HOUSE. AND KHAMENEI BASICALLY TOLD HIM YOU NEED TO BACK OFF ON THESE DEMANDS OR ELSE YOU COULD VERY DEFINITELY BE ARRESTED AND PERHAPS EVEN KILLED. SO THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TENSION BETWEEN THE TWO. KHATAMI, IN A WAY, IS A WITTING MEMBER OF THE RULING CLERGY, BUT THERE'S A CERTAIN INNOCENCE ABOUT HIM THAT YOU SENSE FROM TIME TO TIME, THAT HE'S NOT QUITE AWARE OF THE FULL EXTENT OF THE POWERS THAT HE HAS UNLEASHED IN THE STREET, AS DAVID MENTIONED, THE POWERS OF OPPOSITION AND THIS REPRESSED ENERGY IN THE PEOPLE OF IRAN. AND THE REGIME IS VERY, VERY WORRIED ABOUT THAT. HOST: DAVID WURMSER THOUGH, MADE THE RATHER INTERESTING REMARK THAT HE DOESN'T THINK THE REGIME IS CAPABLE OF CHANGE TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE ENERGIES AND THOSE DESIRES. WHAT ABOUT THE PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS THAT ARE SCHEDULED FOR NEXT YEAR? DOES THAT HAVE ANY POTENTIAL AS A VEHICLE FOR CHANGE? MAYBE I COULD ASK MR. REZAI ABOUT THE PARLIAMENT. WILL THERE BE, DO YOU THINK, THE POSSIBILITY OF REAL ELECTIONS FOR THE PARLIAMENT NEXT YEAR THAT COULD CHANGE THE SITUATION? REZAI: REALLY, THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THIS IN IRAN. HOST: NO REAL ELECTIONS? REZAI: NO, BECASUE THEY CHECK EVERYBODY BEFORE THE ELECTIONS. KHAMENIE CHECKS TO MAKE SURE ONLY PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THE REGIME CAN BE CANDIDATES. HOST: YOU MEAN THEY WOULD FIX THE ELECTIONS, YOU WERE SAYING? REZAI: YES, THEY DON'T LET ANYBODY TALK. THEY DON'T LET ANYBODY DO THINGS. HOST: NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH. REZAI: NONE, BECAUSE THEY KNOW IF PEOPLE CAN SAY WHAT THEY WANT, OR CAN VOTE FOR CANDIDATES OF THEIR OWN CHOICE, THEN THEY WILL TALK AGAINST THE REGIME AND TAKE ACTION AGAINST THE REGIME. IRANIAN PEOPLE HATE THIS REGIME, BECAUSE THIS REGIME HAS RUINED OUR COUNTRY AND RUINED OUR LIVES. HOST: THE REGIME WON'T SURVIVE? REZAI: NOT IF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO SPEAK OUT AND TO ORGANIZE. HOST: NOW, I NEED TO TURN TO IN OUR REMAINING MINUTES, THE VERY IMPORTANT SUBJECTS UPON WHICH THE UNITED STATES BASES ITS POLICY TOWARDS IRAN, THAT THREE THINGS HAVE TO CHANGE: IRAN'S SEEKING AND DEVELOPING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION; IRANIAN OPPOSITION TO THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE PROCESS; AND IRANIAN SUPPORT FOR INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM. DO ANY OF YOU SEE A POTENTIAL FOR CHANGE IN THOSE THREE CRITICAL AREAS THAT WOULD ALLOW A RAPPROCHEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND IRAN? TIMMERMAN: WELL, CLEARLY, THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT HAS BASED ITS RULE ON THOSE THREE TYPES OF BEHAVIOR. BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT AN EXPRESSION OF POPULAR WILL AT HOME, THEY CREATE A BOGEYMAN, A DEVIL THAT THEY CAN BLAME EVERYTHING ON. AND THERE ARE TWO OF THEM RIGHT NOW. ONE IS AMERICA AND THE OTHER ONE IS ISRAEL. RECENTLY, MR. REZAI'S FATHER [MAJOR GENERAL MOHSEN REZAI] WAS ON TELEVISION IN A PRESS CONFERENCE AND HE BLAMED THE MURDER OF THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEUTSCHE BANK IN IRAN ON THE UNITED STATES, ON ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE, AND ON AN OPPOSITION GROUP OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY. THIS IS JUST HALLUCINATORY. THIS REGIME, TO STAY IN POWER, NEEDS TO CREATE THESE FICTIONS, THAT THERE ARE ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE, AND THEY TRY TO GAIN POPULAR SUPPORT BY DOING SO. SO THEY CAN NEVER GET RID OF THEIR SUPPORT FOR TERRORISM. THEY WILL NEVER JOIN THE PEACE PROCESS AS A POSITIVE FORCE BECAUSE TERRORSIM IS WHAT THE REGIME IS BASED ON. HOST: ALL RIGHT, LET ME ASK MR. REZAI, BECAUSE YOUR FATHER WAS IN SUCH A POWERFUL POSITION IN IRAN, DID YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF IRAN'S PARTICIPATION IN TERRORISM BECAUSE TODAY, OF COURSE, PRESIDENT KHATAMI DENIES ANY TERRORIST ACTIVITY? REZAI: OF COURSE, MR. KHATAMI HAS TO SAY THIS, BUT REALLY WHEN THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT CARRIES OUT TERRORIST JOBS IN THE WORLD. . . HOST: TERRORIST JOBS IN THE WORLD? REZAI: YES, THEY BELIEVE THIS MAKES THEM MORE POWERFUL. IF THEY CAN GET PEOPLE IN IRAN TO SAY, "DOWN WITH THE U-S-A," THEY BELIEVE THIS MAKES THEM MORE POWERFUL. THEY NEED TO SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT ISRAEL, ABOUT AMERICA, TO SHOW THAT THEY ARE POWERFUL.. THIS IS WHY THEY MADE THE ATTACK ON THE AMERICAN EMBASSY, WHY THEY CONTINUE TO MAKE ATTACKS AGAINST AMERICA AND ISRAEL TODAY, TO SHOW THEIR SUPPORTERS AND THE WORLD HOW POWERFUL THEY ARE, THAT THEY CAN DO THESE THINGS AND AMERICA AND ISRAEL DO NOTHING TO THEM. HOST: DO YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF ANY OF THESE ATTACKS? REZAI: THEY TRAIN PEOPLE IN SOUTHERN LEBANON FOR TERRORIST ATTACKS. HOST: IN SOUTH LEBANON? REZAI: HEZBOLLAH IN SOUTHERN LEBANON. AND I KNOW A STORY ABOUT DHAHRAN IN SAUDI ARABIA. I REMEMBER THE NIGHT OF THE ATTACK ON THE AL KHOBAR BARRACKS IN DHAHRAN. MY FATHER WAS AT HOME. HOST: WHAT HAPPENED? REZAI: HE SAID, WE WANT TO KICK THE UNITED STATES ARMY OUT OF THE PERSIAN GULF. WE WANT TO DRIVE THEM AWAY AND FORCE THEM TO GO HOME. HOST: MAKE THEM LEAVE? REZAI: HE SAID, IF WE KILL THEM, IT IS LIKE KILLING ONE HUNDRED OF US. IF WE KILL ONE OF THEM, IT WILL MAKE THEM AFRAID AND MAKE THEM LEAVE. HOST: MAKE THEM AFRAID? REZAI: THAT NIGHT, THE NIGHT OF THE AL KHOBAR BOMBING, MY FATHER, HE WAS VERY HAPPY. AND HE SAID, I HAVE A VERY GOOD FEELING. I ASKED, WHY? HE SAID, BECAUSE THE AMERICAN ARMY IS AFRAID OF US NOW. AFTER TONIGHT, THEY WILL PUT PRESSURE ON THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT TO BRING THEM BACK TO THE UNITED STATES. HOST: WHY, WHAT WAS HE HAPPY ABOUT? THE KHOBAR TOWER BOMBING? REZAI: YES, YES OF COURSE. HOST: DID HE SAY WHO DID IT? REZAI: NO, HE NEVER SAID EXACTLY. BUT IF YOU LIVE IN IRAN AND IF YOUR FATHER IS MOHSEN REZAI, YOU KNOW ABOUT HIS FEELING. YOU KNOW THAT HE HAS KNOWLEDGE OF THESE THINGS, AND SO YOU UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT HE MEANS. HOST: LET ME GET QUICK CLOSING REMARK FROM YOU, DAVID WURMSER ABOUT THOSE THREE IMPORTANT ISSUES FOR THE UNITED STATES. WURMSER: WELL, HATRED AND FEAR ARE ABOUT ALL THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTION HAS LEFT TO PEDDLE TO ITS OWN PEOPLE. HATRED OF THE UNITED STATES, OF THE WEST, OF ISRAEL, AND A FEAR IT INSTILLS IN THOSE ENEMIES IT HATES. THAT'S WHERE THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND TERRORISM COME IN. IF YOU TAKE THOSE OUT, IF THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT CAN NO LONGER PURSUE THOSE OBJECTIVES, IT REALLY HAS LOST FAITH IN ITS OWN REVOLUTION. AND I THINK THEN WE'RE ON THE EVE OF ITS COLLAPSE. HOST: BECAUSE THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT IN THE WAY OF FAITH IN ISLAM INSIDE IRAN? REZAI: ISLAM IS NOT POPULAR IN IRAN. NO YOUNG PEOPLE WANT TO BE MUSLIMS TODAY, NOT WHEN THEY SEE WHAT THIS REGIME DOES IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. HOST: I'M AFRAID THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE THIS WEEK. I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR GUESTS -- KENNETH TIMMERMAN, PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER, THE IRAN BRIEF; DAVID WURMSER FROM THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE; AND AHMAD REZAI FROM IRAN -- FOR JOINING ME THIS WEEK TO DISCUSS THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION. THIS IS ROBERT REILLY FOR ON THE LINE. 24-Feb-99 5:21 PM EST (2221 UTC) NNNN Source: Voice of America .