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Pickering on Talks with Russians about Taliban

Terrorism, drugs top concerns for both countries, says Pickering The United States and Russia have agreed to intensify sanctions against the Taliban regime in Afghanistan because of the Taliban's support for international terrorism and drug trafficking, U.S. Undersecretary of State Thomas Pickering said. Speaking to reporters in Moscow October 18 after consultations with Russian First Deputy Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Tribnukov, Pickering said the United States and Russia share "a deep sense of common understanding of the threat" posed by the Taliban. Pickering said the U.S. and Russian government agreed on the need to impose additional United Nations sanctions against the Taliban and to strengthen existing sanctions. The United States accuses the Taliban of running terrorist training camps where tens of thousands of people have been prepared for operations in Central Asia and beyond, Pickering said. He said Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan have been beset by terrorist activities. Pickering repeated the U.S. demand that the Taliban to hand suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden over to U.S. authorities. In addition to sponsoring terrorism, Pickering accused the Taliban of opposing the formation of a broad-based government in Afghanistan, violating human rights, especially those of women, and producing and selling narcotics. He said that the United States and Russia have agreed to implement a United Nations-supported regional plan to counter illegal narcotics. The undersecretary also said that he told the Russian government that the United States "is the largest provider of humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan" with over $100 million in aid given this year. The United States and Russia rule out a military solution to Afghanistan's problems, Pickering said. "We have concentrated our efforts working together in the United Nations on a political settlement," he said. Pickering praised the Russian government for making useful contributions to the Middle East peace process, but cautioned that flights to Iraq that are not for humanitarian purposes and approved by a U.N. sanctions committee should not be permitted. Following is the unofficial transcript of the press conference, provided by Federal News Service: (begin transcript) PRESS CONFERENCE WITH U.S. UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE THOMAS PICKERING Moscow October 18, 2000 U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA JAMES COLLINS: Let me welcome all of you this afternoon. I have the pleasure to introduce Undersecretary Pickering whom I think you do not need to have an introduction to know. He was of course ambassador here from 1993 through much of 1996 and has been very much involved in many of the affairs of this country in his current position back in Washington. He has been here as he will tell you for consultations with Mr. Trubnikov of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Afghanistan and issues associated with that. But I would with great pleasure introduce him to you. Mike, and I think if you want to set the ground rules. STAFF: The ground rules are that we are all on the record. We have about 30 minutes and Mr. Under Secretary Pickering will have a few words to say and then will take questions. MR. PICKERING: Thank you, Mike, and Jim, thank you very much for not only letting me come back to Spaso House but for you kind introduction. I am delighted to see all of you and as Jim said, I am here principally to conduct conversations with our Russian friends and particularly under the leadership of first deputy Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Trubnikov, on questions touching Afghanistan and terrorism. This small group was set up at the instruction of the two presidents and with the work of the two foreign ministers, Secretary Albright and Foreign Minister Ivanov. We had our first meetings in Washington at the beginning of August and this was a meeting to follow on. We were here in principle to work together to find ways to stem the threat to the international community from the Taliban support for terrorist activities and narcotics production. We worked very closely together, examining the situation in and around Afghanistan which continues to threaten regional and international security. The main focus of our talks over the last two days was on imposing additional United Nations sanctions in the Security Council against the Taliban and strengthening those sanctions that are already in effect in resolution 1267 which was passed about a year ago. Both of us agreed to implement provisions of the Regional Action Plan of the Counter-Narcotics Working Group which was adopted by 6+2 nations who are cooperating together in trying to find an answer to peace in Afghanistan through the United Nations. We have been able to continue our work to try to persuade the Taliban to cease their support for terrorism and close terrorist training camps in Afghanistan to comply with resolution 1267, to render Osama bin Laden to justice, to commit themselves to the peaceful resolution of the conflict in Afghanistan, to end their support for illegal narcotics production and trafficking, to accept international standards of human rights, including in particular with respect to the status and treatment of women and girls. The US and Russia have reached a wide range of agreement on these issues and we will continue to work together both bilaterally and multilaterally to stem the threats to the region and to the world community from the support of the Taliban for terrorism and narcotics production in Afghanistan. This meeting comes at a particularly important time because of course our two countries have consulted and worked closely together on a wide range of questions and recently both in the Balkans and in the Middle East, and I was happy to find a receptive and warm and hospitable reception back here in Moscow and interesting and stimulating discussions on both sides with representatives from many departments and agencies participating particularly on the discussions which I had the honor to lead on our side. Perhaps with that brief introduction I'll open now the floor to your questions. Q: (Off mike) -- Central Asia regarding Islamic terrorism and how dire is the threat? MR. PICKERING: We had a good opportunity to examine this in detail and our Russian partners contributed their assessments. I think that you would not be surprised if attention turned rapidly and immediately to not only the continued fighting in Afghanistan and the deep concerns which all of us share of the potential for spillover, but also of the recent summer, I guess, activities would be inappropriate, the recent summer attacks carried out in Uzbekistan and the neighboring states by the IMU (Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan), an organization which has just been found by the Secretary of State to be a foreign terrorist organization which therefore severely restricts their ability to raise money in the United States, to be present in the United States which subjects them, if they do so, to criminal penalties. We discussed this and the effect on the region of such activities and particularly the sense that we had that it was Taliban support for training camps in which tens of thousands have been trained and who then later participate in terrorist activities both in Central Asia and beyond, that deeply concerns us and this is the reason why in fact we held our meetings, reviewed the situation and decided to work more closely together to deal with this threat. Q: Is there any connection that you have found so far between Osama bin Laden and the attack on the US ship the other day? MR. PICKERING: That's being conducted in an on-going investigation. We were not focused in our discussions here. It was too recent an event and there was too much uncertainty at the time we met about what is going on there. So, I would quite correctly refer you to the spokesman on the site for any further comment on that issue. Q: The Russian news agency Novosti. Would you be so kind as to tell me, did you discuss with the Russian partners the question of possible contacts with the Taliban government? MR. PICKERING: Yes, we did. We had a good discussions with our Russian partners on both the contacts that the United States has with the Taliban. I won't say the Taliban government because they are recognized only by a tiny handful, one or two or three countries. But I will say the Taliban and I described for our Russian partners the discussion I had most recently within the last three weeks with the so-called vice minister of the Taliban group and described for them the fact that the United States agenda with the Taliban incorporates a set of deep concerns in four principal areas. And you will not be surprised because they were covered in my opening announcement. First and foremost, terrorism and the sheltering of Osama bin Laden and our request that he be rendered up to justice in accordance with the United Nations resolution. Secondly, our deep concern about the fact they do not seem to be open to participate in a peace process which would seek to create a broad-based government for Afghanistan in which all elements and all groups in Afghanistan and outside of Afghanistan would have an opportunity to be represented. Thirdly, the deep and serious concern we have about the illegal narcotics production and trafficking in Afghanistan and the fact that that contributes a great deal of funding to the Taliban and their war machine inside Afghanistan. And finally, but not least, the deep concern we have about human rights and especially, as we emphasize at every turn, the treatment inside Afghanistan, very, very unacceptable treatment of women and girls in their society in complete contradiction to international standards. On the Russian side, I believe, they expressed not only understanding, but support and concern for the same sets of issues. They may have their own way of describing it, and come here to speak for them, but I thought we had two or three things in common and a deep sense of common understanding of the threat. A deep sense of common understanding of what it was on the Taliban side that we all felt was totally out of keeping with the ideas and principles of the world community and where it is going. And I think finally, a sense that we could achieve common ground working together in the United Nations for further measures, further sanctions to deal with the Taliban in light of the fact that the Taliban has not responded in any positive way to the sanctions and Resolution 1267, which were particularly targeted on their leaders, as you know. Cutting off all of their airline traffic, efforts to limit the travel of their leaders internationally, and we don't believe, and I just want to say both of us agree, that with respect to the Taliban the focus is on their leadership, not the people of Afghanistan. We made it clear to our Russian partners that we are still the largest provider of humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan. This year over a hundred million dollars, up from 70. So there has been an increase. And we have a deep concern about the people of Afghanistan. I think we share that, but we also share a deep set of concerns about the role, the programs and the activities of the Taliban leadership inside Afghanistan, and that is where we believe further additional international pressure needs to be brought. Q: President Putin has spoken a lot about the threat of the Taliban actually coming over the border into Tajikistan and moving to Central Asia. What is your realistic evaluation of the threat specifically to Russia from that type of invasion? MR. PICKERING: I think Russia is, of course, best equipped to make its own judgments about the threat. But I believe we had a wide degree of common understanding about both what was happening in Afghanistan, where the military conflict is going, and the threat that was posed either by the spill over of the military conflict or, more important, this intensive training program in producing tens of thousands of trained individuals who undertake terrorist actions and armed intervention and that kind of thing in various parts of the world. So we share that. That is the reason why we are meeting to try to deal with that particular problem. Now I would say first and foremost we both agree that in respect of the future of Afghanistan there is no sense in our view that there is a military solution to that problem. And we have concentrated our efforts working together in the United Nations on the political settlement. But it is one of the many ways that we seek to bring about in the end, if I can put it this way, to the Taliban sponsorship of terrorism and the instability that comes from the current situation of Afghanistan as it effects the region. Tajikistan is just but one of the places where there has been impact. I mentioned earlier Uzbekistan. Kyrgyzstan has also been affected. Q: Congressional Quarterly. Undersecretary Holum was here this week as well conducting talks on START-3. Obviously you were with the Taliban issue but I presume you have been briefed on this. How have these arms control talks been going? Is there any other progress on that or the missile defense issue, ABM? MR. PICKERING: Let me just say a few words and say that Under Secretary Holum will speak best on this when you have a chance to talk with him. But I understand that progress has continued to be made, that talks are intensively engaged, that we are addressing all of the issues, that there is much work still to be done. Q: AP. If I understood it correctly, you discussed some of the bin Laden activities with the Russians at length. Have you found common ground assessing the threat posed by his movement? Was any possible joint action to stem his activity discussed? MR. PICKERING: Well, I think in the discussion of the threat we, in particular, because we have felt to be primary victims, if I can put it that way, our people and our installations, of Osama bin Laden. We focussed a good bit of our time and attention in explaining to our Russian partners how we assess the situation. I believe they widely understood it, I believe, in fact, that they had their own assessments which were parallel to ours with respect to the danger. We, of course, understood his relationship to the East Africa bombings, the fact that he is under indictment in the United States at the turn of the year. In Jordan, in particular, new information was turned up about other ongoing activities which groups closely affiliated with him intended to undertake and attack tourists and other innocent individuals in acts of terrorism. So we all see this. And we all understand it. We also understand that terrorism is a complex business, that not all is linked to everything, that there are other movements and other activities that take terrorism elsewhere, we have agreed at Russian request to look at the possibility that the scope of the group might look at terrorism beyond that that originates in Afghanistan. And I promise that the United States will seriously consider and study those proposals and get back to the Russian side on the possibility that the scope of the group with respect to terrorism in other regions might be broadened. However, for the moment we have focused on that originating in Afghanistan. It has, unfortunately, as you know, both with Osama bin Laden and others who were trained there a broader scope in Afghanistan. We would be, I think, a lot happier if in fact it only went on in Afghanistan. Not completely because the fate of the people in Afghanistan is obviously of international concern. But unfortunately, it does spread all over as does the narcotics trafficking with which it is closely and in our view intimately related. And we both agree on that assessment. Osama bin Laden is a center of one large ramified, diverse network of these activities. And this is the reason why the United States continues to believe that the Taliban must quickly comply with Resolution 1267 and deliver him to a place where he can receive a trial. Q: For those of us who have been based in Moscow for a long time, we have heard for the last year regarding the Chechen war that the Russians have ample evidence that either Chechens or Arab mercenaries are some sort of fighters who have been trained in Afghanistan and are now fighting Russian forces in Chechnya. My question to you is: have you seen this evidence, do you have credible evidence either from the Russians or from American intelligence sources that mercenaries trained in Afghanistan are fighting in Chechnya? MR. PICKERING: Well, first and foremost, obviously, I have to say from the outset that once you mention intelligence sources, of course, I am not permitted to comment. So let me put that on the side. And let me just say that the focal point of our effort was terrorism in Afghanistan. And so issues that related to Chechnya per se did not come up. Our view, I think, is well known and I just wanted to point out a few sets of concerns that we have and a few sets of the issue. To begin with, obviously, we support Russia's territorial integrity. We also remain deeply concerned by the way in which the conflict has been conducted. There, too, we don't believe there is a military solution and we have told both sides of the depth of our concern about the treatment of Russian citizens in Chechnya and the fact that we believe that treatment should meet the same common standards as the treatment of citizens in Russia all over the country. We have continued to express our concern about terrorist incidents in Russia and talked to Russians not in my working group but in other working groups about that set of incidents. We did not have a discussion in particular about the issue with the question you raised, and I would refer you to Russian authorities for whatever information they may have to give you for your own judgments on that question. Q: Do you trust their assessment that there are mercenaries in Chechnya? MR. PICKERING: I have not heard their assessment first-hand. And so it is difficult for me, much as I respect the medium of the press, on a second-hand report to give you a judgment about that. I have seen many of the reports, I have seen pictures of a gentleman whose name is Hattab who apparently is not a native Chechen and apparently who is in Chechnya. So, it is difficult for me to say that the reports seem to be without foundation. At least in the case of that one individual. Beyond that, I haven't got direct evidence, but I would refer you again to Russian sources for whatever information they can give you for your own ability to review and confirm those. Q: Reuters. So, is it correct to say, then, that U.S. policy on the Taliban is to work exclusively through the United Nations? And did you reach some agreement with the Russians on that issue? MR. PICKERING: No, I think that the United Nations is one very important way. The Security Council represents the highest authority in the United Nations system to deal with issues of peace and security, and the Taliban, in our view, threatens peace and security in its part of the world. And, therefore, the United Nations has taken, through the Security Council, cognizance of that, accepted to consider that issue, and passed a resolution almost a year ago of sanctions against the Taliban leadership in particular. But there are other ways, obviously, of dealing with them. We all have frequent and widespread diplomatic contacts -- both bilaterally and multilaterally -- to raise with other governments these kinds of issues. The United Nations provides a forum in which we can concert, and so it has been up until now our principal means of acting in these areas, but it would be no secret to say that both we and the Russians have recently had visits in Pakistan and talked to the Pakistanis about the issues. The Russians have indicated they have been in touch with other governments in the region: some, like Iran, that we are not in dialogue with and some, such as the Central Asian states that we both have spoken to about our concerns in the region. The Indian prime minister recently visited the United States. The Russian president recently visited India. I think it's safe for you to conclude that these issues were also topics for conversation with the Indians by both of us. So it gives you a sense of the ramified range of activities we're undertaking to try to deal with this issue. Q: Bloomberg News, Marta Sernic. I have a question that's related to Yugoslavia. I don't know whether this issue was raised or not, but it would be interesting to hear if there are some differences between the way the US and Russia look at developments in the country, specifically with relation to Montenegro and Kosovo. Thank you. MR. PICKERING: It didn't come up in the talks that I had which were narrowly and specifically focused on those issues. I look forward to having some broader contacts here this afternoon in which I expect that that question will come up. In some of the conversations I've had on an informal basis up until now I believe that it is safe to say there is a wide measure of common understanding of the situation in the Balkans, and particularly in Yugoslavia or Serbia- Montenegro, that both sides remain concerned obviously about the fact that the electoral victory of Mr. Kostunica is now being effectively translated into a government that can function effectively; that indeed the issue of Montenegro and its future relationship with Serbia is being discussed actively as it was yesterday between Mr. Djukanovic and Mr. Kostunica; that we watched that, I think, with a great deal of interest; that we look forward, as we have over the past months, in comparing notes. And we believe, in fact, that the changes that have taken place within the last month in the region have offered new opportunities for us further to concert our efforts and find common answers as partners in dealing with this situation, which I believe affords a new opportunity for Russia, the United States and Europe to work more closely together in that region than they have been able to up until now. So I consider these developments a bright spot, a welcome opportunity, and an opening. And I believe, from what I have heard here, that this is reciprocated as well on the Russian side. Q: Elizabeth Palmer, CBS News. I wonder if I might focus on something else as well. The trial of Edmond Pope, who is accused of espionage, begins today in Moscow, and given that the trial is being held in camera and that so far US consular officials are not being permitted to even observe the trial, would you care to comment on the administration's concerns that Mr. Pope will get a fair trial? MR. PICKERING: I would say first and foremost let me repeat what is uppermost in our minds at this moment: that Mr. Pope be released as rapidly as possible to receive the kind of medical treatment that his special form of cancer requires and that the process of releasing him be as speedily accomplished as possible. This has remained uppermost in our minds over all of these months, and I wouldn't comment on this issue without beginning to give you that fundamental and basic position of the United States. Secondly, obviously, we have been concerned about the issue, because we don't yet know what the charges are, and the trial is proceeding behind closed doors, so it will be difficult for anybody to form a judgment, if I could put it that way, outside the precincts of the court and not admitted to process about what is actually going on. So at this stage our concern about the trial process, about the lack of information, even in past cases, both in Soviet courts and in Russian courts, there has been in cases in which apparently the charges are similar of espionage, a great deal more information provided in advance about precisely what is being considered. And so this is disturbing to us and obviously we are concerned. But the primary, significant and most important issue for us is that because of this particular health conditions, but also because we believe, in fact, that he should be released, that he be released as rapidly as possible. Q: NTV. There were speculations in the Russian press that the recent meeting between the Russian and U.S. authorities was about some kind of power sharing in Afghanistan, that the U.S. deals exclusively with Taliban and Russia exclusively with the Northern Alliance. Do these speculations have any substance? MR. PICKERING: No. None. I think that the common view that we arrived at mostly with respect to our -- (inaudible) -- of what the Taliban has been doing and our efforts to seek, to get those abhorrent actions on their part changed, whether this is support for terrorism and Osama bin Laden, or narcotics trafficking, or human rights violations, the United States does not support any faction in Afghanistan, it supports a solution to the problem through political means with the establishment of a broad based government which will be representative of all elements, all groups in and out of Afghanistan, of the Afghanistan people. And while that it is not my business to define the Russian policy. I believe from our talks that we have a great deal of coherence both in our assessment and in our objectives in Afghanistan, but I refer you obviously to Russian spokesmen for their own confirmation of their position on what they would like to see, but I believe, in fact, as I say, as a result of my talks, we have a great deal of congruence in that objective. So, it is not power sharing, it is not choosing of sides, it isn't you take this guy, we'll take that guy, we are engaged in a common effort and the word partnership, in my view, is a true description of what we are attempting to do together here. Q: Did you talk about flights to Iraq at all, the possibility that Russian airlines might -- PICKERING: I always talk about flights to Iraq. Q: And what did you say? MR. PICKERING: Well, I think our position is very clear. That we believe the resolutions of the Security Council do not permit flights to Iraq which are not humanitarian and which are not approved by the committee established by the Security Council to oversee the sanctions against Iraq. I think that is straightforward and simple. We believe, in fact, that countries have an obligation to let the Sanctions Committee know and to receive their approval, or their non-objection, however it is organized for a particular flight, and that the United Nations has a duty and an obligation as to states sending aircraft to Iraq to assure that they are truly humanitarian flights. Q: And how did the Russians respond to that? MR. PICKERING: Well, I haven't talked in detail about it yet, but I look forward to doing so. And you know, they can tell you what their views are, but I've told you mine. Q: Associated Press. Did you talk at all about the agreements reached yesterday in Sharm el-Sheikh? And perhaps -- (off-mike) -- Russia might hold in it? MR. PICKERING: Yes, we talked briefly and I plan to talk further and as you know from what you have been seeing those agreements in particular focus on three critical areas. The first is obviously stopping the violence with the remarks and statements which both leaders had made to return to the situation, if I could put it this way, to the status quo before the violence started. The second have to do with the work that President Clinton will do along with the Secretary General of the United Nations in establishing a commission that will do fact-finding with respect to the outbreak of violence and more importantly, I hope, recommendations as to how the parties can avoid this in the future. And the third, and I was delighted to see this, is for the future. That is, to move the peace process back into the work of the two parties on the basis of resolutions 242 and 338 and the other subsequent agreements and I believe that the parties are now looking forward to coming to Washington in a couple of weeks to begin again what they left off when violence so disastrously intruded on the situation. I believe this has been a very tough discussion, a very tough negotiation. Obviously, the first part is critical. We will have to see whether over the next 24, 48 or 72 hours that could be made to hold. We certainly hope so, but we don't underestimate the difficulties in that particular part of the process as both the Secretary and the President said yesterday in holding together. Q: How do you comment on Russia not taking part in these negotiations and do you think it is possible to stabilize the situation without Russia taking part? MR. PICKERING: I would like to say -- I've been waiting for this question for some time, so, I am not surprised you asked it. I would say this. First and foremost, Russia has been a partner in Madrid. Secondly, Russia through the person of the Foreign Minister -- Foreign Minister Ivanov has recently been in the area working too to calm the situation along with many others, with the British Foreign Minister, the French Foreign Minister and so on. And we believe that this has had a happy and salutary effect. The parties when they agreed to get together at Sharm el-Sheikh believed that they should have a minimum number of participants consistent with their hope to find an agreement to stop the violence. That has been their major focal point. The United States has made it clear that it would have welcomed Foreign Minister Ivanov had the parties and the others been able to arrange for him to be there. Nevertheless, he was not there but we believe through our continued contacts, and I hope in my own way to make a contribution to that, we can continue to work closely together on this very important part of the process. I would say there are difficulties enough to go around in the Middle East for all of us to work hard in sharing them. There are important things that we need to do which in my view epitomize in the best sense the possibilities that we are still partners together in the Middle East and need to work closely together and I know in fact that within hours both the President and the Secretary of State have attempted to be in close contact with their Russian counterparts and I know that those talks when they take place if they haven't yet already will once again produce, I hope, a common understanding of how we can continue to cooperate in the future in this very important area. Q: During your visit here will you have a chance to talk to any Russian officials about Slobodan Milosevic? The U.S. position is to actually take him to The Hague and what is your understanding of the Russian position on that issue? MR. PICKERING: I certainly will have the chance. I haven't had the opportunity to have what I would call a serious and informed conversation about this issue. We remain committed, obviously, to our United Nations obligations in the effort to set up the court and to bring to justice all who have been indicted, and we hope to work closely with Russia and other parties to achieve that objective. It's an important objective, and we are working very closely as a result of our conversation last weekend with President Kostunica as well in attempting to deal with these very difficult problem. There is, and there have been, a whole series of important questions that have to be addressed, and this remains among them. STAFF: Last question. Q: I'm Beth Noble from CBS. I'd like to just follow up about Edmond Pope. MR. PICKERING: Yes. Q: If he -- people here who are watching the trial find it -- think it's very likely he'll be found guilty given that the deck is sort of stacked against him in the court from the very beginning. If he is found guilty, what will America do to try to get him released, pardoned? MR. PICKERING: All right. First, that's a hypothetical and a hypothetical. So I'm not going to comment at all on that issue. Our objective will remain unchanged: his earliest possible release for the appropriate medical care and return to his family. Q: But obviously President Clinton and Secretary Albright have already been taking with their Russian counterparts about Edmond Pope's case. What have they been saying? MR. PICKERING: As long as he remains here, we will continue to say the same thing: earliest possible release. STAFF: Thank you. Thank you all very much. (end transcript) (Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)